\",\"type\":\"unstyled\",\"depth\":0,\"inlineStyleRanges\":[],\"entityRanges\":[],\"data\":{}},{\"key\":\"4q1oi\",\"text\":\"\",\"type\":\"unstyled\",\"depth\":0,\"inlineStyleRanges\":[],\"entityRanges\":[],\"data\":{}},{\"key\":\"bc5cc\",\"text\":\"The below is an auto-generated transcription from the podcast. Please excuse typos and grammatical errors.\\n\\nNarcissistic Personality Disorder\\n\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 00:02\\nWelcome to the Mandela podcast where we help you feel your best body, mind, and soul. Hi there, this is Charlie McDermott back in the studio with Bri Jaworski. Bri, how you doing?\\n\\nBri Jaworski 00:15\\nI am awesome, Charlie. How are you?\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 00:17\\nAwesome gonna be awesomer, after spending some time with you today because I am always learning. Maybe or traumatized, we're not sure yet. Now, this is so cool, I don't think you can ever overdo it when it comes to just learning about yourself and others around you for that matter, because, we're all navigating and I believe truly trying to improve and, I think we're put on this planet for a reason and it's that journey, and we're not here to, to just like eat cake every day and put our feet up and there's no fun in that.\\n\\nBri Jaworski 00:17\\nYeah, I agree and if I can even just help a little bit with giving some information on a few things, awesome. I am all about learning. I learned like a million different things every single day, not a million but a lot of different things every day and some of them stick some of them don't.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 01:19\\nThen the fun part about that, you know, you learn but then that leads you to other things you don't know so you know it just like the spider effect, right? If you learn more and more, it becomes more and more interesting. Which you sent me notes on today's topic and I've heard of the narcissist right then, and I never really fully stopped into really what is that? And so, your topic today on narcissistic personality disorder, I love what you have in mind here and the way you teach is just so much fun. So, I'm going to turn this over to you and let's start with just filling our listeners in, at the basic level, you know that narcissistic personality disorder, what is that?\\n\\nBri Jaworski 02:05\\nYeah, so first of all, the fact that you don't really know that much about it and are not really like, needing to know much about it makes me think you probably have healthy people in your life, that's probably a good thing to start off with. It's the people that tend to know a lot about this, other than people in my field, obviously, but just the average person that knows a lot about this tends to have somebody that they've encountered, whether it be like a boss, or sometimes a partner or something like that, which is kind of let them down that rabbit hole of learning a lot about it and typically, they've been affected in a negative way by someone. So, the fact that you don't know that much about it, I'm going to take that as a good sign. So, narcissistic personality disorder. This is part of the series that we're doing on Cluster B personality disorders. So, we're going to tune in this one today and I really just want to talk about basically there's three different kind of like nuances when it comes to narcissistic personality disorder and we hear like you said, we hear that word a lot. Like he's a narcissist, she's a narcissist and you can have some of these traits and not necessarily have this disorder. \\n\\nSo, I want to also put that out there. narcissistic traits are much more common than having narcissistic personality disorder itself. So, you may you the proverbial, you may be listening and thinking like, that fits so many people that I can think of, but in reality, they have to fit. There's, I think nine criteria, points to the actual diagnosis, and they would have to hit like five out of nine, in order to have the actual official diagnosis of a narcissistic personality disorder. However, we're going to talk about some of the different nuances that we see on a clinical side and some of the different presentations like we did, we talked about last time with borderline, there's some different presentations to the actual diagnosis. So, same thing with this one. So, we're going to talk about those different types and I want to also give you some examples and some sort of like pop culture references that maybe people might be able to pick up on like for movies or TV references, and things like that. So, let's get started. \\n\\nSo, the first one is kind of the textbook what we all think of when we think of a narcissist. So, the example I'm gonna give first of all, before I kind of tell you a little bit about it, is the character of Miranda Priestly from The Devil Wears Prada. So, it's Meryl Streep's character, so, she's this, very overbearing boss, and kind of a nightmare to work with, has the name [Inaudible 05:00], and so anyway, so, this kind of textbook narcissism, it's tends to be very negative both the person and others around them, the people tend to have kind of an overinflated sense of self-importance, they think that they're very important, whether in reality they are or not, you know, in going back to this example, this person's job puts them in a position of power over other people, and therefore, kind of solidifying this over in, you know, self-importance, so a very strong preoccupation with kind of fantasies of success and power. So, they get very preoccupied with very kind of hungry for success and power and a need for admiration that's like a very big part of it and in this movie, going back to the reference of the movie, the character very much needs like, that admiration from other people and if she doesn't get it, she gets very angry and she's very outward and like her presentation. So, another thing is a sense of a sense of entitlement. \\n\\nSo, very entitled, lack of empathy is a big one with narcissistic personality disorder in general. So, we see this a lot with this personality disorder, as well as another one that we're going to cover soon, which is the antisocial personality disorder and one of the main components to that, and this one, and how they overlap a little bit is really just a lack of empathy. So, what statistically, we have found is that a lot of high ranking corporate officials, such as CEOs of companies, and things like that, tend to have maybe not the full diagnostic criteria for a personality disorder, but they might have narcissistic traits, or they might have antisocial traits, because of that lack of empathy, kind of like they're willing to do whatever, take whomever down, walk all over, whoever to get to the top kind of thing.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 07:21\\nIt seemingly in the movie reference that you see, those narcissists, you know, there's always that point in the movie where it looks like, maybe they've seen the light in their bath, to be empathetic and you think, finally, they're get and then, [Crosstalk 07:37]. \\n\\nBri Jaworski 07:41\\nSo, in a real-life perspective on something like that, for instance, if someone did not necessarily meet the criteria for the actual personality disorder, that's when we might see a sort of turn, you know, but if someone needs the actual, true, narcissistic personality disorder criteria, there's no turn. It's just, the way it is, but yeah, you're right. I was thinking about that movie, and you're 100%, right, you're like, Oh, she's gonna be, no, she's not gonna be [Inaudible 08:10].\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 08:14\\nShe had such an opportunity.\\n\\nBri Jaworski 08:16\\nRight, absolutely. So, but yeah, just the major kind of exploitative behavior, in this case, much so with her employees and the people that work for her and things like that but you know, it can be put into any context, and a lot of times, they are in a position of power, because they have this kind of grandiose sense of self to where like, a menial job just would never do, you know, like, it has to be a big high powered job of like respect and importance, otherwise, they feel like the job wouldn't be good enough for them and so, unfortunately, they are a lot of times given a position of power over other people, which can be very exploitative and harmful to other people. So, another example of this in a different context would be the character of Joan Crawford's character in Mommie Dearest. So, that would be more so like a parental role, obviously, but we can see for anybody that's kind of an older reference, but for anybody that's seen that movie the childhood the Christina, who is the daughter had a very difficult childhood growing up with her mom, who very much fits the bill for this kind of textbook narcissist, parent and have you seen the movie, Charlie?\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 09:37\\nMaybe I did as a kid. The only thing I can remember is the coat hanger. That's when every other movie I just think coat hangers.\\n\\nBri Jaworski 09:45\\nSo, no wire coat hangers. Everything had to be a certain way, her way, you know, which was the only way and what happens in a situation where you have a narcissistic parent and we could do a whole podcast just on that. But having a narcissistic parent is very difficult because you're constantly trying to please them constantly trying to lift them up, because they are constantly seeking that out of other people they expect. They expect people to kind of bow down to them to worship them, almost like a god complex. So, having a parent like that can be very difficult in a lot of ways, because you feel almost just like you're never measuring up, you're never good, another kind of thing. So, that will be another example of that in a different context. So, narcissistic parents are very, very harmful to their children.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 10:47\\nNow, do these individuals, do they see any of this? I mean, at what point, you know, they need like the bottom out, and like before they go, maybe I need to change? I mean, how does that typically happen? \\n\\nBri Jaworski 11:02\\nYou know, it's hard to say for sure, but I think because of the lack of empathy, I think it's not so much that they don't realize they're doing it, it's more so that they just don't care that they're doing it. So, when you get somebody in a situation where like that, it's not that they're totally oblivious to the fact that they're harming others, or they're stepping on others, or, whatever the case may be, it's more so that they just have that lack of empathy, it just doesn't allow for them to care and so when you don't really care about your behavior, and how it's affecting other people, the facilitation of change is like not very probable. So, having a parent like that, again, would be having a boss like that, you know, like in The Devil Wears Prada. That's one thing, you know, you're not up there, you can walk away from that situation. I'm sure it's a nightmare in the time, you know, but having a parent like that is a whole another ballgame. \\n\\nSo, let's get on to the second, lovely people we were dealing with here. Alright, so the second is the very grandiose presentation of narcissism and this is very stereotypical of what we see a lot in public figures. So, we see this a lot in politicians in like high ranking public office, things like that. So, here's one of the things that you should know about narcissistic personality disorder in general, typically, on the outside, in less they are this, that very negative textbook, what we were just talking about, if they fall more into this second category, they're typically very light, they come across to the outside world, they come across very charismatic. A lot of times, they're very outspoken, very bold, they have kind of an assertive behavior that makes people feel like they can be trusted. Whether that is true or not, it doesn't really matter to the narcissist because their whole thing is they need that admiration, they need those followers and speaking of the word follower, we see this a lot on social media now, because people get very self involved, they're very involved in their appearance, their appearance is very important to them, whether that be like aesthetically or just like how they're portrayed, the number of followers that they have is very important to them. So, we have this whole like weird subset of narcissistic behavior going on with social media now, which is concerning a lot of ways but, the person, that's the first person to speak out about things and very loud and proud and but the problem with this person is, a lot of times they very much over estimate their actual abilities and so the, the grandiose persona that they have, is not really deep rooted in anything substantial. So, it's really just, this feeling and thought that they have about themselves being so great and so wonderful and so powerful, and this and that, which is a lot of times kind of backed up by the fact that they do have people listening to them or following them or asking for advice from them and things like that, which kind of just like bolsters them up into this, like it's kind of a fluff of nothing like it's nothing, there's no foundation to them having all of this knowledge or power or anything. It's just kind of a self-perception, which can be dangerous if you think.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 15:01\\nRight, it brings to mind since we're talking about TV shows and movies and all that I'm reading a book on We Work and Adam Newman, there was a Netflix actually, Anne Hathaway, who was in devil was she played the wife, Rebecca, Adam Newman, and Adam is, what's his name? Dallas Buyers Club not Matthew Carnegie, but the other. I think he got an Oscar for it. But anyway, so he took this real estate company, but convinced everyone around him that it was a tech company, so that the valuation would be God knows 10 times or what more. So, he, was able to convince the investors I mean, we're talking like mutual fund companies and investment companies that this deserved a huge valuation and he's all about tech, but he couldn't, he could barely use a computer. I don't think he was, that they had a guy, I think he had a vision, but he had a very big personality, and he would, [Inaudible 16:23], movies, TVs, you never know the real-life person but it seemed like, empathy wasn't, you know, high up on his trade of the DNA or whatever. \\n\\nBri Jaworski 16:35\\nRight, and you can see how people can kind of, get lost in that, and like, not really the truth of the matter or the facts, but rather just the presentation and that's the thing, it's all about presentation for this, like, grandiose version of narcissists. You know, a couple of examples that come to mind. One of them is kind of funny but, the movie, The Dictator, which stars Sacha Baron Cohen, and that's such a comedy, but like, he's the general, President, Admiral like, gives himself every title, you know, I think, his name is like, Aladdin and so he changes every word in the dictionary, basically, to Aladdin so people get very confused, they're like, because good it's now Aladdin and that is Aladdin, like, everything has to be surrounded. The famous thing in the movie is, if anybody disagrees with him, he does this little like, under his neck, off with his head, like, if they say anything against him, he's like, oh, yeah, it's fine, like off of this. So, he would be an example of this kind of like, grandiose narcissism. \\n\\nBri Jaworski 17:56\\nAnother example would be the very popular, and polarizing from the Tiger King, Joe Exotic, no prison, but very flamboyant, very big personality, thought he was the best singer, the best lion tamer, the best XYZ, best at everything and thought he was running for some kind of political role, and I don't know all the things about him and it's been a while since I saw that documentary but he's another example of just, you know, thought he could be a politician and really had no experience had no training, just this very grandiose feeling of like, I can do anything, which is all great and good but as you see, in the movie, he steps on a lot of people to get into the places that he tries to get to. So, that's kind of where the maladaptive part comes in. It's not so much that, I'm all about people believing in themselves and thinking that they can move mountains if that's what they want to do. There has to be something underneath.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 19:06\\nYeah, something to back it up.\\n\\nBri Jaworski 19:09\\nIt's when you get into like, the all the words and no sentence underneath that we get into a little bit of trouble with that.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 19:19\\nWe missed a question for you with your [Inaudible 19:21]. Politics is the obvious and we have to get into current politics and parties or anything. Generally, when you see or hear a politician, are you able to tell, you know, like, this maybe not what you're led to believe, or how's that work for you?\\n\\nBri Jaworski 19:41\\nYeah, I mean, the thing about it, a lot of them say and do the same things and so that's kind of one of the things that tipped me off a little bit. I'm like, I've heard this before, or like I've seen this before and in this country, at least, there are definitely like career politicians that have been politicians since the beginning and, and there are some that are true activists that I think like have spent their time really like fighting for, like social causes and things like that, which has driven their political career but the ones that have been in politics for a long time, the kind of beauty of that for us as citizens is we have a long trail of now, kind of going back and comparing things that they said or did before and what they say and do now and what I tend to notice is the people that I would kind of consider falling into some of these categories tend to say whatever it is that they need to say, in that time, whatever is popular at that time, and that changes, you know what I mean, if you see someone speak in the 80s, or 90s, versus the hot topics, now they're going to be different and so their stance a lot of time, a lot of times changes, depending on what audience you're talking to, it's like, they just want to be liked, they want to be admired. Like, they're almost chameleons, in that ways the [Inaudible 21:13], will change. Whereas you do have a few I can think of very few that are kind of across the board, they've always thought the same things, they've said the same things, but for the most part, especially ones that, I would say fall into this category, you know, they're gonna say, whatever is gonna get them votes and so that's one way and, you know, technology is definitely not doing them any favors in that regard because we are now able to record every little thing was ever said or done by these people and a lot of times they think it's coming back to bite them.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 21:53\\nThat's a good point, you know, back in the day, you could have a town hall meeting and say, whatever you need to say to appease those voters gathered and next, [Crosstalk 22:00].\\n\\nBri Jaworski 22:00\\nYeah, [Crosstalk 22:01], you know, have these people and I don't know if they have like actual jobs, but like, they must just sit at the computer and like, look for discrepancies all day, because they'll have like a montage video of like, oh, he said this and then he said this, and when he said, you know what I mean? And I'm like, nope, I mean, they're not lying. They're there, right? I don't have the time to collect all that data but like, good for them, you know, but yeah, a lot of politicians, I would say fall into this category, which is kind of scary, actually.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 22:36\\nQuick, before we go down that rabbit hole, let's go back to movies.\\n\\nBri Jaworski 22:39\\nYeah, so the last example that I would give up someone in this category that's in a different way would be like the movie Mean Girls. So, kind of all the girls in that movie might fit into this somewhere another but the main one being Regina George, she has like the very inflated some sense of self. She has very high self-esteem, she thinks, very highly of herself, her looks, her appearance and so when she starts gaining weight and things like that, she's doesn't understand like, these could never be happening to me, and she'll also take down anybody in her path to get there. She does a lot of passive aggressive type things, which is kind of more so the next category that we're going to talk about, but I think overall, she fits better into this category, she's definitely but again, like very popular in the movie, I wouldn't say she's nice or well-liked and that's not necessarily the reason she's popular. But she speaks her mind. She has a very over inflated sense of self and for some reason, like, there are people that are very attracted to that in different ways. So, that would be another like pop culture reference for that one, [Crosstalk 23:58]. \\n\\nCharlie McDermott 24:00\\nOh, yeah. Tina Fey classic, I mean, I love she plays a schoolteacher.\\n\\nBri Jaworski 24:06\\nThere's a lot of people know, that was a really good. There's a lot of mental health stuff going in, and I could pick that whole movie apart but, we'll leave it at that. No, but um, so yeah, so the third category, or nuance of the narcissistic personality disorder, is what we call the covert narcissist. So, this one actually kind of switching gears a little bit. This one is actually the scariest to me because these are the people that are not going to be so loud and proud and buoyant. They're more passive aggressive, they can be very vindictive. They get very defensive, if anything is questioned whether it be a principle of theirs, that they're somehow contradicted in something or there any sort of criticism, they get very defensive and can get sometimes aggressive, but more so passive aggressive. You see a lot of like, revenge type activities and things of someone like this and this is the scariest, because covert narcissists actually love to be in relationships with empaths and if you think about that, that is like a recipe for absolute disaster, you know, because you've got this one person who needs this constant like fuel, you know, someone loving them and caring for them and adoring them and admiring them and then you've got this other person this Empath, who is typically very giving of those things freely, but would be it's almost like setting a bear trap for someone like that. \\n\\nIt's absolutely the worst combination but for the narcissist, it's the perfect situation for a relationship because they've got this constant supply of everything that they need and it's given really freely and openly by the other person, but the other person will just be completely sucked dry but pulling from some of the other nuances. In the beginning, this person, the kind of the covert narcissist can appear very loving and that's where we see a lot of like this love bombing, that's kind of a newer term that's come out but, you know, it's when someone enters a relationship, and they're just love bombing. I mean, they say, I love you very fast, you know, you're the most beautiful and the most wonderful, I've never met anyone like you, I've never felt this way before just all the things that a person would want to hear. They're hearing from this person, but it's in the very beginning. So, it's like, there isn't really any groundwork put in, to word like the person would actually have genuine feelings of these things. I mean, they're nice to hear, but like, people aren't always the most rational when they are in love and so, they hear all these things, but they don't always stop to think like, wait, how do they love me so much when we just met years ago? Or why did they? Why am I the best person they've ever met, when they barely even know all the things about me, I haven't even told them all the things about me or definitely haven't had time to show them. \\n\\nSo, we don't have like the most discernment necessarily, when we're in love, love can be wonderful, but it can also kind of cloud our judgment. So, the love bombing, very quickly turns to discounting the person making them feel crazy, we got gaslighting and things like that. They withhold their love a lot. So, you they go from love bombing to, I'm going to give you the silent treatment, I'm not going to love you, I'm not going to give you affection, I'm not going to give you attention. So, it can be a very much roller coaster for someone in a relationship with someone with a covert narcissist and the other thing about it is, they tend to not really have a really strong sense of self. So, a lot of times, they're just mirroring what they think the other person wants. So, that's why in the beginning, you may be like, I have never met such an incredible person because they're showing you exactly what they know, you want to see and they're very good at it. So, that's why I say this version is kind of the scariest and kind of the most dangerous in regard to relationships. So, I don't really have any, like, cool pop references for this one. This one's more like actually scary but I would say if you find yourself in a new relationship where you're feeling like, this is too good to be true, like just take a step back and like really, really start to evaluate, like, where all of this love is coming from because a lot of times it is too good to be true and I'm not a negative person and I'm the last person to tell anyone like you're moving too fast. \\n\\nMy husband and I were engaged like within three months of meeting you know, but he's not a narcissist but if he were, that might be something that could happen as well. So, we have to be kind of, have to just like know these things, especially if you're out there dating, you have to just know that these kinds of people exist unfortunately and just you know, keep a little bit of a guard up, at least in the beginning when you're getting to know someone, because I can't tell you how many people I've seen come in, that are in the middle of a divorce are coming in because they're having a dysfunctional relationship and a lot of the things that they tell me are really textbook narcissism, but it's this covert narcissism that I think people don't know about as much, because it's not as in your face, it's much more behind the scenes and they're making all the plans, and they're really running the show, and it's their show and if you don't fit into their show anymore, then they're not going to make your life very happy. So, it's kind of scary.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 30:32\\nWow, plus, I guess, you know, maybe even from friends and family standpoint, you see that individual definitely, because you're so close where everyone else is? Oh, Joe is so great, how could you think about breaking up or whatever, right?\\n\\nBri Jaworski 30:47\\n100%, yeah. The persona that they show to others is typically much different than what they would show behind closed doors, and you won't see that right away either. So, that's the other thing. Like you have to give it a little bit of time before this person would start to kind of let their walls down and stop that mirroring to where they aren't any longer like feeling the need to be who you want them to be because you're already invested. You know what I mean? Like, once they've got their hooks in you, they don't need to do that anymore. It's exhausting for them anyway, like they just will put you down and make you think no one else will want you and all of those, like very abusive type of things instead of like love bombing you like that, that only comes in the beginning and it's short lived.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 31:29\\nWell, Bri, this has been great. It's kind of like where we started this episode. It's all about learning and growing and understanding and this information for many folks is going to be really helpful.\\n\\nBri Jaworski 31:44\\nI hope so and, again, if this is just a snippet of information, but yeah, definitely, there's a lot of information out there and if you feel like you might be in a situation sort of like this or dealing with somebody like this, like there's definitely a lot of help out there. Additionally, to stuff like this.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 32:01\\nSuper. Well, we will look forward to hearing your wonderful voice in the next episode. Until then, keep doing what you're doing there.\\n\\nBri Jaworski 32:08\\nThanks Charlie. I will see you next time.\\n\\nCharlie McDermott 32:10\\nThanks for listening to the Mandela podcast. To learn more about Mandela Counseling and Health Coaching, go to www.mandela_counseling.com or call 239-360-1983 or visit us on Facebook or Instagram.\\n- 1 -\\n- 1 -\",\"type\":\"unstyled\",\"depth\":0,\"inlineStyleRanges\":[],\"entityRanges\":[],\"data\":{}}],\"entityMap\":{\"0\":{\"type\":\"IMAGE\",\"mutability\":\"IMMUTABLE\",\"data\":{\"src\":\"//img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/284efb9d-9c26-4553-9515-3d0fe08e3a17/489BB337-F538-400B-9F3E-D896CAF1C901.png\",\"alt\":\"Fort Myers Counseling, Florida Counseling \",\"loading\":false,\"left\":\"0%\",\"top\":\"0%\",\"width\":\"100%\",\"height\":\"100%\",\"rotation\":\"0\",\"editedAspectRatio\":\"1.7777777777777777\",\"filter\":\"NONE\",\"href\":\"https://\"}}}}","socialSharing":{"twitter":{"enabled":false,"profile":"@ServicesMandala"},"facebook":{"enabled":true}}}};
